MS Qian
and her husband
The following interview was conducted in the Hangzhou home of Ms. Qian and her husband, Mr. Jiang, translation was assisted by Huang Yandie, the couples' granddaughter. Ms. Qian and Mr. Jiang were graduates of Zhejiang University and Hangzhou University during the Cultural Revolution. On account of their scientific career paths, and their usefulness to the nation, both Mr. Jiang and Ms. Qian were spared from much of the persecution that faced acedmics during the Cultural Revolution. In some ways, they seem to reflect a forgotten time. During the interview, Mr. Jiang sits physically in front of Qian, the grandmother, as they describe their experiences as a couple during this time.
There was a sense of social negativity when a person dressed too well or wore make up. They would sometimes be sent to rural areas to have their ideas refocused, to think that looks are so very important is wrong. You judge a girl on how hard she works and how well she studies, not on looks.
Jiang: I worked in research for atomic agriculture, which was very new at the time. It means working with radiation to make plants better.
Bey: How did you get this job?
Jiang: The country assigned me the job. Everyone feels proud to be given a job. What the country needs, I need. I worked day and night, but my hours were officially eight per day. If you got good grades you got a good job. White collar jobs are intellectual jobs, blue collar jobs are labour jobs, I am very proud to be white collar worker.
Bey: When did you get married? How old were you both?
Qian: I was twenty-four.
Jiang: I was twenty-five. This is not very young to get married in China.
Bey: What attracted you to each other?
Qian: [Looks at her graddaughter and laughs quietly]
Jiang: A student’s aim is to have a healthy body, good grades and to find a good job. To have a healthy body is very important. You must keep the body fit in order to work hard and protect the country. If you maintain this, you achieve a Three Good Student award. There were physical tests for keeping fit through sports.
Bey: Were these tests the same for men and women?
Jiang: [Laughs] No! [Looks at his wife] Physically, women were not equal, but in studies they definitely were.
Bey: Were men and women similar in appearance, like how they dressed?
Jiang: Women did not have to dress like men, but many choose to do so. Before the Soviet Union's influence, China did not have many good quality fabrics, but soon even China began to produce many colourful dresses for women to wear. Also, the government advocated for a frugal lifestyle, so people’s dress would reflect this. You judge a person not on what they wear, or how they look. There was a sense of social negativity when a person dressed too well or wore make up. They would sometimes be sent to rural areas to have their ideas refocused, to think that looks are so very important is wrong. You judge a girl on how hard she works and how well she studies, not on looks.
Qian: It is more fair to judge women this way.
Jiang: Society today is not as fair as it was back then, as today everything is based on who you know and not on what you know.
Bey: So you found your wife attractive because she was very intelligent?
Jiang: We knew each other from elementary school, we both were the very best in our schools, and both went to good universities in Hangzhou.
Mr. Jiang then goes on to discuss political disparity in regions across China. Politics were very important to everyone in China at this time, though not many people understood exactly what they were supporting. Jiang acknowledges that there was an atmosphere of tense confusion, an energy that was not possible before. He describes the Cultural Revolution and the Great Leap Forward, and how many regions would have two opposing political leaders, who were supported by opposing political groups within the public, this could divide families, marriages and friendships.
Jiang: People were willing to lay down their life for their political leader. It was not a matter of rationality, just confusion. It was the war of the mind as well as of the body. We would fight for our beliefs with guns and words. People were not afraid to die for their political beliefs.
Bey: What made this atmosphere possible?
Jiang: Everyone was proud of China.
Bey: Do you think that this passionate patriotism was based on negativity towards the past?
Jiang: Definitely, before the Party, we were occupied by the Japanese. Children used to sing: “You take a knife, I’ll take a rifle, and after we’ve killed the Japs, we’ll have candy.”
Bey: Do you think that patriotism was a uniting force for men and women?
Jiang: Everyone was united by the common goal of protecting China, but there was still the problem of leadership.
Bey: Did you share political views as a married couple?
Qian: We had different political views at first, when we did not work together in the same region, thus had different views. But later, when we came together, we discussed our views and came to an agreement.
Jiang: We lived thirty kilometres away, but traffic was very bad so it took a long time. We only saw each other once a week for nine and a half years.
Bey: Did you have children during this time?
Qian: We already had children, but they lived with their grandparents.
Bey: Why did you not live together?
Jiang: We did not have a choice. After school age we lived as a family.
Qian: Sometimes we would talk on the phone.
Bey: [To both] Do you think it is more difficult for a man or a woman to leave their children.
Qian: Definitely a woman.
Jiang: I was also very upset.
Qian: I was more upset, because I raised the children and nursed them up until a year old. But then, I had to work.
Bey: Could you not take time from work?
Qian: No… I would be criticized for that.
Bey: How was your image of your mother different from your image of yourself as a mother?
Qian: My mother never went to school, she was not bothered to educate her children, I think education is the most important. My sisters never went to school, I did.
Bey: Do you think that is more force of personality than opportunity?
Qian: Most definitely.
Bey: Tell me about your mother.
Qian: My grandparents were very poor because my grandfather died of a heart attack at 26. My grandmother had been married at the age of fifteen, and could not remarry. So my mother did not receive any education.
Jiang: My life changed because of the Party. Without it I would not have an education.
Qian: Without the Party I would not have been able to study. Education is the most important
Note: The cover image is not Ms. Qian and Mr. Jiang, who were uncomfortable having their photos and full names used in this interview. The image was taken from here.
My mother never went to school, she was not bothered about educating her children, I think education is the important. My sisters never went to school, but I did.
August 25, 2012